Yes, the merging of social advocacy with celebrity culture and media careers has been a disaster. There's always an incentive danger with professionalizing this field because when people's careers depend on a problem continuing to exist, there's an obvious conflict of interest. But by fusing celebrity and media with social advocacy, the worst types of narcissists and their supporters have become too dominant. The same problem is also seen in social "anti-advocacy," with the anti-woke crowd being led by Hollywood failures (Rufo, Shapiro, Walsh) and everyone fighting to carve out their own territory in the media landscape.
This is a great article and brings a lot of clarity to the SPTV movement. I was In Scientology for 35 years and I have written 3 books on the subject, telling my story and also deconstructing Scientology’s control mechanisms. I have appeared on may of the SPTV channels as a guest but have tried to stay out of the fray, which I consider counterproductive at best. I appreciate your take on the SPTV evolution and I think all involved with SPTV should read it.
I am working on something similar, but with a slightly different focus. Great article, covers ground I am not going over as I was never a "fan" of the SPTV community.
If you check my substack (not much on there, I have a blog on my own website and I just get kinda lazy and forget to crosspost lol) you'll find an article about Smith-Levin from March of 2023 which got me largely exiled from the anti-scientology community. I was even accused of being an agent of the Operation Of Special Affairs. Thankfully, members of Aftermath have come around and we've actually become friendly since the events of late November.
This has been sad. Somewhere along the line, Rinder has been determined by the SPTV community to have been a war criminal in hiding who should have been sentenced and executed long ago. I admit to finding it convenient that he becomes a target for his generation ago bad acts right after he and the board at AMF removed Aaron Smith-Levin for his constantly embarrassing behavior while representing the movement. A-Aron is the wanna be Joe Rogan of the SPTV world.
I watch a lot of the SPTV people, and i've never heard anyone demonize Mike Rinder. I've seen them be grateful for the great things he's done. But they seem to me to be baffled by his recent behavior, and wish he would correct course.
Excellent article. I have a rare position. I have 50 years of experience as a composer working in the field of marketing. And until I left Scientology in 2012 I was effectively supporting the cult through their marketing arm. I have first hand experience with how propaganda and media personalities work.
I’ve worked with many celebrities. I understand manipulation as opposed to truth. Monia hits the nail on the head in a very objective dissertation. I hope that the distraction of click hungry social media celebrities is mitigated in favor of cooperation to continue to expose Scientology’s abuses and fraudulent activities.
This article, while well written and clearly long thought out leaves me feeling honestly flabbergasted.
#1 understood about the nature of Discord, that you as a participant are meant to scroll through all the thread to find out the story so it doesn’t have to be “repeated” causing problems. And “new people demanding answers” are not appreciated. However, the content of the conversations even with out those apparent slights to their sensibility are grotesque at best. Calling for the delight in destruction of all Second Gen’s, mocking content they have t even watched. Creating their own factions of loyalty etc, it’s exactly what you are describing of the “Drama channels” outside of it.
While you admit that “no executive has clean hands” but then brush that off by saying that public accountability will never happen, seems to excuse the actual trauma caused by the people involved.
Since I am assuming, and correct me if I am wrong, that you never suffered at the hands of Scientology or any single one of these former executives you are basing your own conclusions on only their public behavior to the YT and television audience? How then, without the knowledge or experience of having lived through any of that, or continuing to experience the tactics of Scientology being played out on you in this public arena by those supposed “Ex” executives could you make that conclusion? Especially without talking to anyone on this perceived “other side” you are referencing?
Be happy that you have never been on the receiving end of a Sea Org reprimand. And keep the rainbow thoughts about Mike Rinder close to your heart. Because this fight is about making sure that the PERPETRATORS of the crimes face justice.
Scientology is an organization. It’s a name on a building. The people inside doing these actions, DIRECTING the crimes are the ones that need to be held accountable for those ACTIONS. Some people hanging OUTSIDE those buildings talking about crimes that “Scientology” did don’t want any of us to remember that THEY were the PEOPLE who did those crimes, not a group, not a building.
So when I said in your Mirriam video on Youtube that this was always about attacking Mike and you said I "missed the entire point" I really didn't did I? I told you I didn't miss the point that it wasn't t get justice against Scientology that you wanted but getting it from those who were in power (ie Mike Rinder if nobody else was available).
Like here, you blew me off as someone who didn't know "the facts" as if you knew what I knew and didn't know about anything in this world. I'll tell you I'm not a scientologist and have never been one. I took an interest in the topic of cults several years ago and have paid attention when I could, so have the basics down.
You want revenge from Mike because you can't get revenge from Scientology and I told you that was clear. From this reply you've confirmed it. You are eating your own to get some sort of satisfaction and that is sad.
Mike has tried and appears to continue to try to make amends for his past actions by being a positive force for your movement, but that's not enough for you. You seek blood which again is sad.
Mike had every right to respond the way he did. He was CLEARLY being attacked and he's human with the same emotions as you and I. The attack was clear and not in the slightest hidden. As I said, those 16 questions' were just the beginning and I was right. You all now smell blood in the waters and are converging. Of course he'll lash out to defend himself from you idiots. He's not lashing out because he was once COS/OSA, he's defending because he's human. I'd do the same with no prior connections to the cult at all. He has the right to defend himself against you misguided fools.
I think this has more to do with Aaron and your group loyalty than any justice for Mirriam. There's blood in the water and for some reason you have a need to circle your prey and attack. on Mirriam AND Aaron's behalf.
This article by the OP of this page appears to see it clearly, as do I. You have internal anger that you've yet to resolve and are now lashing out at those who were allies in your battles.
Don’t you dare say this kind of garbage to Nora. Are you the one who actually WATCHES her content? Well I do and I watch many of the others who are like her—kind, compassionate, inclusive, and FORGIVING. Nora is not dumb enough to pour energy into hatred toward Mike Rinder or revenge toward scientology. You are very ill informed and clearly have never heard her speak on her channel. It’s the complete opposite. The things you’re saying make it very clear to me that you’ve never watched her content. About Mike Rinder Nora has said she does not dislike or hate him and that she does not wish for him to be attacked by the any of the community. She said she wishes him well and that some of the choices he’s made recently were disappointing to her. She politely and respectfully outlined what she felt could’ve been done differently. She did not engage in name-calling, doxxing, shaming, and dishonesty—Mike Rinder was the one who displayed these behaviors and incited his blog followers into believing that there’s some sort of witch hunt going on. Which tells me he must have been damn good at his scientology job. It’s not just Nora either. I watch so many of these creators and they all said the exact same thing—they don’t hate Mike, they wish him well, and they hope he’ll come back around. Mike doesn’t seem to want you to believe that though. If anyone is perpetuating a divide it’s him. The only thing SPTV creators have asked for is for him to actually LISTEN to certain points about what has gone on lately. A few of them have publicly asked him (politely!) to at least hear them out but he won’t even respond back. Instead he takes the example of some of the trolls on youtube (the ones who drag ALL of the creators not just Mike) and claims he’s being persecuted on his blog. As a subscriber of SPTV channels my wish for Mike is the same as what the creators have said. I would appreciate if he would actually listen to what his former coworkers are saying about the situation. Also, I would appreciate him educating himself on what it means to be trauma-informed before firing back at a victim. Lastly I wish he’d stop letting his ego block his ears and his progress in this movement. No one in this community who truly cares about abolishing scientology wants to “get” Mike Rinder and take him down. As someone who enjoyed his content with Leah years ago I was really disappointed in him recently. I don’t think the situation isn’t fixable however and the wonderful thing about Nora Ames is that I’m pretty sure she agrees.
Ummmm my response is to the author. Is that you? I don’t know exactly what you’re on about. My message is clear. My live was clear. Please go and look at what I actually say about the whole thing. Attacking Mike is t what’s happening. Stating facts about his involvement and WHY he’s acting the way he is is just reality. If he wants that to change then he should change his behavior.
This sounds a lot like gatekeeping, telling protesters and activists that they're not doing it right. Protest and activism can take many different forms, and we get nowhere when we police how others take action. It also stinks of Martin Luther King's 'beware the white moderate'. Look it up.
So much of this is out of context and just wrong. For such a long article it certainly is extremely one-sided. I follow so many streamers for SPTV, maybe 30 at this point? Not one of them has said they do not like Mike Rinder or encouraged their viewers to take him to task. All of them have said the opposite—they do NOT hate him, they wish him well, but they are disappointed in several recent choices that he made. All of them have said some variation of this. As far as “drama channels” right now I can think of three. I don’t subscribe to them but my feed gets snippets and I scroll right past them. The funny thing is that these three drama content creators actually criticize ALL of the SPTV content creators—-ALL of them. They are NOT a part of any SPTV community they are simply trolls, period. If you can find a cause or a community or a group online that is without any trolls I’d call that a miracle. The most egregious thing about your article however is that it’s so condescending, reductive, and insulting to the MANY people that really do care about making scientology a thing of the past. The creators I watch have generated such a welcome and inclusive community that has inspired me to do even better as a person myself. I don’t know which SPTV faction you’ve been watching because what you described is nowhere near the truth. The sad thing is I suspect you’re writing this after scrolling through video titles without watching months and days and hours of actual content like thousands of us have been doing. You wouldn’t have come to this conclusion if you had actually watched and LISTENED, which Mike Rinder also refuses to do.
Would you not want answers and explanations if you were as severely treated like the ex gen’s. Would you? If you say no you are lying. You have no idea what these ex gen’s went thru but yet you are going to criticize them because they want answers. Obviously you are up Mikes a—. They all should have confronted Mike way before now but Mike can thank Aaron because they didn’t because of Aaron. They just want to be left alone and for Mike and the others to stop the drama they cause. I can tell you are not any kind of honest journalist nor am I, because your word salad comment was heavily one sided. Pretty disgusting to bash ex Gen’s who are victims with PTSD. None of them talk about any of them. Get it clear.
They all deserve answers, accountability, compassion, respect and love. Has Mike Marc Claire Amy Mat provided any of that?
F-ck NO. I could go on and on about the abuses Mike Clair Amy Marc have committed and you are going to act like they are innocent angels. Give me f ing break. Marilyn Honig and Serges husband Michael were not in the cult however have suffered dealing with all these horrendous crimes as has other husbands and wives and family. The aftermath foundation was paying for Liz Ferris to receive therapy but that has stopped now because she’s friends with Aaron. WTF is that about? So yes as an adult Mike was beaten and locked up in RPF which is horrendous however we are talking about kids that were so severely abused and some of their parents left them in the hands of OSA-Mike. Everyone has made mistakes including Mike Claire and Marc, Amy Mat however we all opened our arms to them because we either didn’t believe everything what was said about them or forgave them. Keep in mind a lot of negative stuff was said about Mike Claire and Marc and Amy and Mat when they escaped the cult. Now they bash all the names I listed above for being friends with Aaron. Some of these people have praised them but still get bashed in by Marc Claire Mike and Amy and Mat Amy’s husband said Aaron was just like Dave Miscavige. How dare he compare Aaron to that monster. Well they are all like OSA.
Aaron also attended the Danny Masterson trial everyday to give the Jane Does support and to support Claire who testified. Now they have 3 married couples on the board so Mike can have control over everything. Aaron raised 20,000 dollars from his followers for Mikes cancer treatment. Oh it’s embarrassing to raise money for Mikes cancer treatment. I donated as well and have no regrets. I cried when Mike was sick even though I did not know him. I also adored Clair and Marc. How I was fooled. But turning on Aaron and the other ex-Gens who I adore more than they know is egregious and unacceptable. It’s mind blowing to see that what they all have done to try to get rid of this cult and none of that mattered to Mike and HIS board. You do not treat your friends like that. I also have to say this Mike Marc and Claire had serious embarrassing allegations against them when they left the cult. Did that bother me? No because I believed the allegations weren’t true or they escaped and are doing the right thing now. Do you even know what Mikes ex wife and kids has said about him? Oh that wasn’t embarrassing? Maybe you do some research. I now believe Mikes ex wife and kids.
Yes, the merging of social advocacy with celebrity culture and media careers has been a disaster. There's always an incentive danger with professionalizing this field because when people's careers depend on a problem continuing to exist, there's an obvious conflict of interest. But by fusing celebrity and media with social advocacy, the worst types of narcissists and their supporters have become too dominant. The same problem is also seen in social "anti-advocacy," with the anti-woke crowd being led by Hollywood failures (Rufo, Shapiro, Walsh) and everyone fighting to carve out their own territory in the media landscape.
This is a great article and brings a lot of clarity to the SPTV movement. I was In Scientology for 35 years and I have written 3 books on the subject, telling my story and also deconstructing Scientology’s control mechanisms. I have appeared on may of the SPTV channels as a guest but have tried to stay out of the fray, which I consider counterproductive at best. I appreciate your take on the SPTV evolution and I think all involved with SPTV should read it.
Thank you!
I am working on something similar, but with a slightly different focus. Great article, covers ground I am not going over as I was never a "fan" of the SPTV community.
If you check my substack (not much on there, I have a blog on my own website and I just get kinda lazy and forget to crosspost lol) you'll find an article about Smith-Levin from March of 2023 which got me largely exiled from the anti-scientology community. I was even accused of being an agent of the Operation Of Special Affairs. Thankfully, members of Aftermath have come around and we've actually become friendly since the events of late November.
Feel free to reach out!
Great article
This has been sad. Somewhere along the line, Rinder has been determined by the SPTV community to have been a war criminal in hiding who should have been sentenced and executed long ago. I admit to finding it convenient that he becomes a target for his generation ago bad acts right after he and the board at AMF removed Aaron Smith-Levin for his constantly embarrassing behavior while representing the movement. A-Aron is the wanna be Joe Rogan of the SPTV world.
I watch a lot of the SPTV people, and i've never heard anyone demonize Mike Rinder. I've seen them be grateful for the great things he's done. But they seem to me to be baffled by his recent behavior, and wish he would correct course.
Excellent article. I have a rare position. I have 50 years of experience as a composer working in the field of marketing. And until I left Scientology in 2012 I was effectively supporting the cult through their marketing arm. I have first hand experience with how propaganda and media personalities work.
I’ve worked with many celebrities. I understand manipulation as opposed to truth. Monia hits the nail on the head in a very objective dissertation. I hope that the distraction of click hungry social media celebrities is mitigated in favor of cooperation to continue to expose Scientology’s abuses and fraudulent activities.
Thank you, Geoff.
I put off publishing this for a long time because the last thing I wanted was to risk adding to the fraught atmosphere, so I'm glad it resonates.
Thanks for this!
Excellent!
Brilliant
I am trying think of where to begin here.
This article, while well written and clearly long thought out leaves me feeling honestly flabbergasted.
#1 understood about the nature of Discord, that you as a participant are meant to scroll through all the thread to find out the story so it doesn’t have to be “repeated” causing problems. And “new people demanding answers” are not appreciated. However, the content of the conversations even with out those apparent slights to their sensibility are grotesque at best. Calling for the delight in destruction of all Second Gen’s, mocking content they have t even watched. Creating their own factions of loyalty etc, it’s exactly what you are describing of the “Drama channels” outside of it.
While you admit that “no executive has clean hands” but then brush that off by saying that public accountability will never happen, seems to excuse the actual trauma caused by the people involved.
Since I am assuming, and correct me if I am wrong, that you never suffered at the hands of Scientology or any single one of these former executives you are basing your own conclusions on only their public behavior to the YT and television audience? How then, without the knowledge or experience of having lived through any of that, or continuing to experience the tactics of Scientology being played out on you in this public arena by those supposed “Ex” executives could you make that conclusion? Especially without talking to anyone on this perceived “other side” you are referencing?
Be happy that you have never been on the receiving end of a Sea Org reprimand. And keep the rainbow thoughts about Mike Rinder close to your heart. Because this fight is about making sure that the PERPETRATORS of the crimes face justice.
Scientology is an organization. It’s a name on a building. The people inside doing these actions, DIRECTING the crimes are the ones that need to be held accountable for those ACTIONS. Some people hanging OUTSIDE those buildings talking about crimes that “Scientology” did don’t want any of us to remember that THEY were the PEOPLE who did those crimes, not a group, not a building.
That’s what we’re talking about.
So when I said in your Mirriam video on Youtube that this was always about attacking Mike and you said I "missed the entire point" I really didn't did I? I told you I didn't miss the point that it wasn't t get justice against Scientology that you wanted but getting it from those who were in power (ie Mike Rinder if nobody else was available).
Like here, you blew me off as someone who didn't know "the facts" as if you knew what I knew and didn't know about anything in this world. I'll tell you I'm not a scientologist and have never been one. I took an interest in the topic of cults several years ago and have paid attention when I could, so have the basics down.
You want revenge from Mike because you can't get revenge from Scientology and I told you that was clear. From this reply you've confirmed it. You are eating your own to get some sort of satisfaction and that is sad.
Mike has tried and appears to continue to try to make amends for his past actions by being a positive force for your movement, but that's not enough for you. You seek blood which again is sad.
Mike had every right to respond the way he did. He was CLEARLY being attacked and he's human with the same emotions as you and I. The attack was clear and not in the slightest hidden. As I said, those 16 questions' were just the beginning and I was right. You all now smell blood in the waters and are converging. Of course he'll lash out to defend himself from you idiots. He's not lashing out because he was once COS/OSA, he's defending because he's human. I'd do the same with no prior connections to the cult at all. He has the right to defend himself against you misguided fools.
I think this has more to do with Aaron and your group loyalty than any justice for Mirriam. There's blood in the water and for some reason you have a need to circle your prey and attack. on Mirriam AND Aaron's behalf.
This article by the OP of this page appears to see it clearly, as do I. You have internal anger that you've yet to resolve and are now lashing out at those who were allies in your battles.
Which is again... sad..
Don’t you dare say this kind of garbage to Nora. Are you the one who actually WATCHES her content? Well I do and I watch many of the others who are like her—kind, compassionate, inclusive, and FORGIVING. Nora is not dumb enough to pour energy into hatred toward Mike Rinder or revenge toward scientology. You are very ill informed and clearly have never heard her speak on her channel. It’s the complete opposite. The things you’re saying make it very clear to me that you’ve never watched her content. About Mike Rinder Nora has said she does not dislike or hate him and that she does not wish for him to be attacked by the any of the community. She said she wishes him well and that some of the choices he’s made recently were disappointing to her. She politely and respectfully outlined what she felt could’ve been done differently. She did not engage in name-calling, doxxing, shaming, and dishonesty—Mike Rinder was the one who displayed these behaviors and incited his blog followers into believing that there’s some sort of witch hunt going on. Which tells me he must have been damn good at his scientology job. It’s not just Nora either. I watch so many of these creators and they all said the exact same thing—they don’t hate Mike, they wish him well, and they hope he’ll come back around. Mike doesn’t seem to want you to believe that though. If anyone is perpetuating a divide it’s him. The only thing SPTV creators have asked for is for him to actually LISTEN to certain points about what has gone on lately. A few of them have publicly asked him (politely!) to at least hear them out but he won’t even respond back. Instead he takes the example of some of the trolls on youtube (the ones who drag ALL of the creators not just Mike) and claims he’s being persecuted on his blog. As a subscriber of SPTV channels my wish for Mike is the same as what the creators have said. I would appreciate if he would actually listen to what his former coworkers are saying about the situation. Also, I would appreciate him educating himself on what it means to be trauma-informed before firing back at a victim. Lastly I wish he’d stop letting his ego block his ears and his progress in this movement. No one in this community who truly cares about abolishing scientology wants to “get” Mike Rinder and take him down. As someone who enjoyed his content with Leah years ago I was really disappointed in him recently. I don’t think the situation isn’t fixable however and the wonderful thing about Nora Ames is that I’m pretty sure she agrees.
Ummmm my response is to the author. Is that you? I don’t know exactly what you’re on about. My message is clear. My live was clear. Please go and look at what I actually say about the whole thing. Attacking Mike is t what’s happening. Stating facts about his involvement and WHY he’s acting the way he is is just reality. If he wants that to change then he should change his behavior.
I really hope Mike, Claire, Marc, Amy and Mat are able to reconcile with Aaron. Chris as well!!
A lot of viewers would really like to see that, and division only helps OSA.
“Reunion shows” or “unity chats” content would also IMO be a great way to increase views and subs.
This sounds a lot like gatekeeping, telling protesters and activists that they're not doing it right. Protest and activism can take many different forms, and we get nowhere when we police how others take action. It also stinks of Martin Luther King's 'beware the white moderate'. Look it up.
So much of this is out of context and just wrong. For such a long article it certainly is extremely one-sided. I follow so many streamers for SPTV, maybe 30 at this point? Not one of them has said they do not like Mike Rinder or encouraged their viewers to take him to task. All of them have said the opposite—they do NOT hate him, they wish him well, but they are disappointed in several recent choices that he made. All of them have said some variation of this. As far as “drama channels” right now I can think of three. I don’t subscribe to them but my feed gets snippets and I scroll right past them. The funny thing is that these three drama content creators actually criticize ALL of the SPTV content creators—-ALL of them. They are NOT a part of any SPTV community they are simply trolls, period. If you can find a cause or a community or a group online that is without any trolls I’d call that a miracle. The most egregious thing about your article however is that it’s so condescending, reductive, and insulting to the MANY people that really do care about making scientology a thing of the past. The creators I watch have generated such a welcome and inclusive community that has inspired me to do even better as a person myself. I don’t know which SPTV faction you’ve been watching because what you described is nowhere near the truth. The sad thing is I suspect you’re writing this after scrolling through video titles without watching months and days and hours of actual content like thousands of us have been doing. You wouldn’t have come to this conclusion if you had actually watched and LISTENED, which Mike Rinder also refuses to do.
Another thing Monia Ali
Would you not want answers and explanations if you were as severely treated like the ex gen’s. Would you? If you say no you are lying. You have no idea what these ex gen’s went thru but yet you are going to criticize them because they want answers. Obviously you are up Mikes a—. They all should have confronted Mike way before now but Mike can thank Aaron because they didn’t because of Aaron. They just want to be left alone and for Mike and the others to stop the drama they cause. I can tell you are not any kind of honest journalist nor am I, because your word salad comment was heavily one sided. Pretty disgusting to bash ex Gen’s who are victims with PTSD. None of them talk about any of them. Get it clear.
Page 5
They all deserve answers, accountability, compassion, respect and love. Has Mike Marc Claire Amy Mat provided any of that?
F-ck NO. I could go on and on about the abuses Mike Clair Amy Marc have committed and you are going to act like they are innocent angels. Give me f ing break. Marilyn Honig and Serges husband Michael were not in the cult however have suffered dealing with all these horrendous crimes as has other husbands and wives and family. The aftermath foundation was paying for Liz Ferris to receive therapy but that has stopped now because she’s friends with Aaron. WTF is that about? So yes as an adult Mike was beaten and locked up in RPF which is horrendous however we are talking about kids that were so severely abused and some of their parents left them in the hands of OSA-Mike. Everyone has made mistakes including Mike Claire and Marc, Amy Mat however we all opened our arms to them because we either didn’t believe everything what was said about them or forgave them. Keep in mind a lot of negative stuff was said about Mike Claire and Marc and Amy and Mat when they escaped the cult. Now they bash all the names I listed above for being friends with Aaron. Some of these people have praised them but still get bashed in by Marc Claire Mike and Amy and Mat Amy’s husband said Aaron was just like Dave Miscavige. How dare he compare Aaron to that monster. Well they are all like OSA.
Page 2
Aaron also attended the Danny Masterson trial everyday to give the Jane Does support and to support Claire who testified. Now they have 3 married couples on the board so Mike can have control over everything. Aaron raised 20,000 dollars from his followers for Mikes cancer treatment. Oh it’s embarrassing to raise money for Mikes cancer treatment. I donated as well and have no regrets. I cried when Mike was sick even though I did not know him. I also adored Clair and Marc. How I was fooled. But turning on Aaron and the other ex-Gens who I adore more than they know is egregious and unacceptable. It’s mind blowing to see that what they all have done to try to get rid of this cult and none of that mattered to Mike and HIS board. You do not treat your friends like that. I also have to say this Mike Marc and Claire had serious embarrassing allegations against them when they left the cult. Did that bother me? No because I believed the allegations weren’t true or they escaped and are doing the right thing now. Do you even know what Mikes ex wife and kids has said about him? Oh that wasn’t embarrassing? Maybe you do some research. I now believe Mikes ex wife and kids.